Real World Politics

[Ethan_Burnkeep]

Oh there's no "fault"
I'm glad I started the conversation

[Pig_Larkcape1]

do you think it is wrong for Christians to tell gay people and LGBTQ people that what they are doing is wrong?

yes

Christians get killed and put in jail all around the world for their faith. They get killed for existing in many of the same places that LGTBQ folks get killed. This isn't about straight vs. lgtbq - this is about Christians' right to exist alongside the lgtbq folks

boy what the heck. murder = not good, i have no idea what you're saying there but ok. this isnt about straight vs lgbtq because both are fine. it's about homophobic weirdos vs lgbtq. we dont have problems with straight people as a people, you can be straight and not homophobic. it's just equality. i quoted this in a different post.

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression"

maybe the reason why a lot of christians feel like they are being oppressed was because for a long time they were the oppressors. now that we're shifting to a more equal society, maybe yall are getting mad since it's not as easy to be terrible people as it used to be. just a thought

she's uncomfortable with what they believe.

burv they believe they should be allowed to exist without persecution. if she is uncomfortable with that, then she should be. stay mad.

some of yall always will dance around the point or cover up everything you've said with more word salads that have zero meaning.
some issues are not black and white, this one is. you either can support the lgbtq community or you dont. this community obviously is on the latter side. i wish you would admit that to yourselves instead of writing grand essays on why the lgbtq are wrong on their definition of love. at the very least, it's dishonest to yourselves.

a cultural change that encourages the practicing of abominable things.

we already live in this. america puts war, racism, and genocide on a pedestal. we not only attempt to justify evil, we glorify it. if you want to stand against abominable things, stand against neo nazis, or cops, or literally anyone other than the lgbtq. they are literally just chillin. let them be

[Lilliana_Umbrellascope]

@Pig_Larkcape1 did you miss this?

Seriously, y'all? Again?
We've had this discussion a million times.
I'm sick and tired of people ignoring my injunction to KEEP IT OFF THE BLIXING FORUMS.
I don't care if it's a valuable discussion or if y'all need to air out your points. I've heard it all. People are having these exact same arguments across the entire Internet so go find them.

I get you have opinions you want to share, and I see your point of view, but this is a conversation that isn't allowed on the forums. It never has been, and they key thing is we need to listen, obey, and respect the mod's decisions. The forums is not a debate club, especially for issues like these.

It was dropped days ago, and we don't need to keep digging it back up.

[Pig_Larkcape1]

beep boop <- this is my ear and i have heard what you said

acknowledged i will return to my rat hole

[Sierepica_Fuzzywalker]

Mod decision to allow homosexuality to be discussed:

Members' Union

I took it up with Iliara, who had apparently forgotten it.

some issues are not black and white, this one is. you either can support the lgbtq community or you dont.

And this is where I disagree with you, Pig. I don't think this is a black and white issue and I think it's very complex and nuanced. And I have spent many hours explaining the complexity that I believe exists so people can understand it.

It is not black and white. If you try to black and white a complex issue in order to simplify it so you don't have to use your brain to understand it, you end up hurting people who don't conveniently fit in the black and white boxes. It's also lazy.

That has been my biggest beef with the two-party system in America - it oversimplifies complex issues into for-and-against without considering all of the complexities involved in human relationships and situations in America. For example, I believe that the solution to stopping abortion is crisis pregnancy centers and not legislation.

this community obviously is on the latter side. i wish you would admit that to yourselves instead of writing grand essays on why the lgbtq are wrong on their definition of love. at the very least, it's dishonest to yourselves.

This doesn't make any sense. If we all all against the LGTBQ community, us writing essays about why their definition of love is wrong would make sense, right? Or do you mean that we support the LGTBQ community?

burv they believe they should be allowed to exist without persecution.

And that's the thing about false religions: they feel threatened by anyone feeling negative about their beliefs or any admission of complexity in their relationship to outsiders. It's always: false religion is correct, everyone else who doesn't believe is a threat.

Christianity, on the other hand, which is true, is not threatened by the unbeliever but instead welcomes him or her and whatever emotions he or she might be feeling. We don't shy away from the complexities and instead use Scripture, which provides a full and complete solution to them.

[Eerie_Coppernight]

@Sierepica_Fuzzywalker, this is not said often enough, but you are refreshing to read.

[Pig_Larkcape1]

you end up hurting people who don't conveniently fit in the black and white boxes.

what

Whose feelings are being hurt in the situation where i said you either support lgbtq rights or dont?

If we all all against the LGTBQ community, us writing essays about why their definition of love is wrong would make sense, right? Or do you mean that we support the LGTBQ community?

i have no idea what you're saying here im not getting what you're trying to say

they feel threatened by anyone feeling negative about their beliefs

buddy they feel threatened by just holding hands with their partner in public. most lgbtq people cant even go outside without being berated, called slurs, receiving dirty looks and death threats. they feel threatened because they quite literally are threatened.
the social stigma surrounding their very existence is enough to drive someone insane.

[Eerie_Coppernight]

Whose feelings are being hurt in the situation where i said you either support lgbtq rights or dont?

What about Christians who feel homosexual attraction but don't want to live the lifestyle?

Besides, Sierepica and I are not concerned with feelings in this matter as much as we are concerned with souls. Will it do the person any good in the long run to live the lgbtq lifestyle? Evidence would suggest not.

most lgbtq people cant even go outside without being berated, called slurs, receiving dirty looks and death threats.

Where, exactly, does this occur?

[Spector_Otterquill]

Guys, shut your mouths and go somewhere else. A mod said so.

[Eerie_Coppernight]

Real World Politics

Gestures upward.

[Eerie_Coppernight]

Sorry for the double post, but is it making you uncomfortable?

[Pig_Larkcape1]

Christians who feel homosexual attraction but don't want to live the lifestyle

what

you can be a christian and not a homophobe, they do not have to overlap

if you wanted more evidence of discrimination other than your insane obsession of what other people do with their bodies, then here
{https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/94/2017/11/NPR-RWJF-HSPH-Discrimination-LGBTQ-Final-Report.pdf}

[Eerie_Coppernight]

You brought the subject up. I was just sad that a friend was going through a dark time.

You brought the subject up. I was just sad that a friend was going through a dark time. That post had been made so long ago I'd almost forgotten about it until you dragged the it up.

[Sierepica_Fuzzywalker]

Whose feelings are being hurt in the situation where i said you either support lgbtq rights or dont?

The people who don't "support LGTBQ rights" who aren't homophobic people out to threaten LGTBQ folk.

These people exist. You've been talking to them for this whole conversation.

i have no idea what you're saying here im not getting what you're trying to say

I had no idea what you were trying to say here, was what I was saying:

you either can support the lgbtq community or you dont. this community obviously is on the latter side. i wish you would admit that to yourselves instead of writing grand essays on why the lgbtq are wrong on their definition of love. at the very least, it's dishonest to yourselves.

---

buddy they feel threatened by just holding hands with their partner in public. most lgbtq people cant even go outside without being berated, called slurs, receiving dirty looks and death threats. they feel threatened because they quite literally are threatened.

And if people were doing this to any of my friends, the people threatening them would at least get an earful. Threatening people with death isn't going to convince them to change their ways, and what gives those who threaten a right to threaten them? We are all sinners and no better than they are.

Nobody should have to live in fear. I know what that is like and I know what that feels like.

With that being said, this feels exaggerated to me. At least on the university, or in church where I live, this has never occurred. Everyone seems to be supporting the LGTBQ folk or following my position that they need to be loved away from their sin. Nobody is suggesting threats or violence.

you can be a christian and not a homophobe, they do not have to overlap

This statement is true, but I don't think you understand what the word "homophobe" fully means. The straight supporters of LGTBQ are just scared of the LGTBQ folks as the people who are threatening LGTBQ folks. They are scared of what the LGTBQ folk will do to them if they don't support them, scared of losing their friendships with their LGTBQ friends, and scared of being branded bigots. There is fear on both sides. The only escape is following the truth of the Scriptures.

Neither me nor Eerie are homophobes, Pig. We are not scared to stand up for the truth of our faith nor are we out to threaten them, as far as I know.

But there has been a lot of fear surrounding this discussion, there is no doubt about that. We have at least two community members who are scared to discuss the subject for fear of offending LGTBQ people, one person who is scared of losing his friends, and one who views LGTBQ as his political enemies. But there is a variety of views here, and so casting the entire community as homophobic is quite out of line.

Fear is, however, why this discussion keeps coming up. Fear of what these people will do if we follow the Scripture without being jerks - I mean, they inspire fear, trying to cast the Scripture as cruel, that's scary business, and that can lead Christians to compromise (or find weapons). What we all need to realize, as I have said a half bazillion times, is that God is not cruel. He is kind and loving. These people have rejected God's design for their bodies to do cruelty to them, and then blame God's Word for not allowing said cruelty. The solution is more faith.

The LGTBQ folk are not a source of truth. They are liars. However, they do not deserve threats or violence simply because they have been deceived. There is no sense in kicking a wounded dog, and there is no sense in threatening a broken and hurting man or woman.

[Ethan_Burnkeep]

but you are refreshing to read.

Yes very refreshing.

do you think it is wrong for Christians to tell gay people and LGBTQ people that what they are doing is wrong?

yes

I started the conversation, put my foot out, and now I'm put my foot back in and am probably going to regret it.

Pig, If I was doing something absolutely evil, would you tell me to not do it?

[Spector_Otterquill]

is it making you uncomfortable?

No but why waste time discussing adult things in front of children when you have been asked not to and you(plural) are literally doing nothing other than repeating what you have already said.

[Eerie_Coppernight]

Tell that to @Pig_Larkcape1. He brought the subject up and I, combative fool that I am, had to play the apologist.

[Spector_Otterquill]

Tell that to @Pig_Larkcape1

It take two to argue and

you(plural)

[Beth_Applemine]

So, Pig, I asked you if you thought it was wrong for Chtistians to tell gay peeps that their actions are wrong, and you said:

yes

May I ask why you believe it is wrong?

We as Christians are trying to do what the Bible tells us to do. The Bible says that we should tell people who are sinning that they are, and the Bible also says that what gay people do is wrong.
So if I really believe the Bible, I'm going to do what it says, no matter what hate I get from people who are offended.
According to Romans:

If you saw someone walking towards a cliff on their phone, completely oblivious to the fact that they are about to plummet to their death, what would you do if you cared about them in any way?

"STOP! YOU'RE ABOUT TO WALK OFF A CLIFF!!!!!"

Right?

So that's why I believe that we should tell gay people that what they are doing is wrong.

[Iliara_Mustardtop]

In that post Jacoby said “as long as it doesn’t get out of hand,” which at this point it definitely looks like it has.
Anyway, we’re currently in discussion about this in mod chat, so we’ll get back to y’all.