Members' Union

[Levi_Orangeburst]

Good stuff. Excited about your upcoming posts.

And also, @moderators. Are we allowed to mention drugs on here as long as its not explicit? Like what I said on RRP 2? Just wanting to make sure so I don't do sumthin I shouldn't.

[Pig_Larkcape1]

I have no interest in making this forum responsible for someone committing suicide.

You support saying homosexuality is morally wrong, you say it's temptation rather than valid attraction, and you have said multiple times gay people will go to hell if they stay gay.

For someone who preaches about

reckless use of language

and how it can

make people feel alone. And feeling alone, like no one understands you, you are not worthy of being understood, no one cares

that seems very contradictory. I've never spoken against homosexuality on this forum, that's pretty much you. So why are you telling me to be careful of (gay) people's feelings?

How many people have left the forums because of something you said?
At least one.
How many people have left the forums because of a joke I made?
Zeeeero

---

you’ve just insulted the hard work and time that the person put into writing their post and said that it was worthless, which also isn’t helpful.

If you are insulted by something I say, I'm sorry. If you're insulted by something I joke about, then I'm just sorry for you.
tbh i am very tired of reading your posts in this discussion. sometimes they are very genuine and nice, but most of the time it's just an endless word salad saying the same thing in different ways.

---

however

This

Yes, I see you, and I am willing to listen. But there is a difference between a college classroom and a therapy office. And Law and Order, believe it or not, is actually more of a college classroom than a therapy office. That doesn't mean that college classrooms don't deserve to exist, nor that Christians cannot witness for Christ in them, nor that seeing debate and proper debate conduct on an online forum isn't a witness to the world. College-classroom style debates belong on Law and Order and on the forum in general. And they are largely safe for kids.

But as for therapy office stuff, do you really want your emotional distress and personal problems on the front page of the New York Times? Moreover, do we have the right to subject a bunch of little kids to our emotional distress and pain? Is it fair to expect a random person on Google to understand your emotional pain?

Not really.

A few years back, I had a public mental breakdown on the Internet, and while it was under an anonymous name with less consequences, I still regret it. I am now able to talk about the information inside the breakdown articulately and understand it because it is now behind me, but in the intensity of pain your writing skills can break down and you can stop making much good sense. It's hard to get people to accept emotional distress language when you don't even understand the pain you are going through yourself and the revelations come in waves. So you have to wait for the pain to stop and the understanding to come before you type. At least, publicly, on the forum. If you are going through something and babbling inarticulately in caps lock, that is NOT a good witness for Christ.

It really isn't. If you can't understand your own emotions enough to control yourself, how can you understand anything else?

So in terms of emotional distress inadvertently caused by our fellow forumers, the empaths and peacemakers do indeed have wise counsel: take it to private message. It is the emotional distress that should not be here in raw form inside a debate topic. That doesn't belong in Law and Order, it belongs in Prayer Requests.

My point (should Mr. Fox actually read this) is that while we have a responsibility to be gentle with hurting souls, we also need to realize that Law and Order is a bad place to discuss personal agony. We can discuss intellectual topics that may just happen to be related to and affecting your personal agony, but it's a bad place for the expression of the agony itself. Personal experiences dragged in Law and Order are intellectual data to be examined by others about how well it supports your argument - it's not a venue to get sympathy and emotional support. Private message is far better for that. Therapy works better on the internet underground, away from the cold eyes of Google, judgmental parents, and sensitive children. Yes?

Meanwhile, if it is merely an intellectual objection, there are ways to mitigate that "if your parents don't want you on this discussion, don't view it or post in it, I'll let you know when that topic is safe for you again," that type of thing. Encouraging parents to be on this forum with their kids might help too if they are worried. But I think the point about emotional distress and subjecting people to it or recklessly assuming that emotional distress and human communication is invalid is the trunk of the poisonous tree.

It's not the debate that has to go private to protect the kids, it's the teenage/adult emotional distress that may have been caused by the debate, largely. There's a difference.

And that's where I'm at in my thinking here. To Law and Order, here we go.

is very smort and I agree with most of it.

[Levi_Orangeburst]

You support saying homosexuality is morally wrong, you say it's temptation rather than valid attraction, and you have said multiple times gay people will go to hell if they stay ga

I missed that... But yeah, I guess it is morally wrong, but it is completely valid attraction. And no ones going to hell if their saved, as I have stated before.

[Levi_Orangeburst]

SFTDP.
For older peeps eyes only.

Summary

Not that this is explicit, just that I dont want another Keaton. Okay so, remember that there is a difference between Sexual attraction and romantic attraction. @Sierepica_Fuzzywalker, your saying it like if a dude liked a dude, it means they automatically want to do things. Which is not the case in some cases.

[Sierepica_Fuzzywalker]

and you have said multiple times gay people will go to hell if they stay gay.

It is on you to produce evidence for this statement. I believe that I have said no such thing.

How many people have left the forums because of something you said? At least one.

It is on you to produce evidence for this statement. While it is possible that a foolish mistake I made caused Creel to declare that she was leaving, I did apologize for that mistake and she forgave me. Faetrix and his comments were also a prime contributor to her exit, and I do not think what I said on its own, absent Faetrix, would have been enough to make her leave.

It is my understanding that Creel and me are on fairly decent terms.

How many people have left the forums because of a joke I made? Zeeeero

It is unwise to assume a negative. Not everyone who leaves the forums publicly declares their exit.

If you are insulted by something I say, I'm sorry. If you're insulted by something I joke about, then I'm just sorry for you.

I am referring to your post in Random Anything. I took this situation seriously, and you are over there laughing at me. Double standards, hurting people who are suffering, silencing the Scripture, accusations and endangering kids. Ha ha very funny.

but most of the time it's just an endless word salad saying the same thing in different ways.

Just covering all of the emotional possibilities and objections on the road to acceptability.

Patience, folks, I got to eat. I'll be back.

[Pig_Larkcape1]

Time to fact-check myself, cause I'm a self-righteous idiot.

I believe that I have said no such thing.

Real World Politics

homosexuality is morally wrong

Real World Politics

Claiming homosexuality as an identity is a violent act that ruins your relationships and even has negative impacts on your health

Some sketchy stuff that I don't fully agree with, but I didn't find you explicitly saying they will go to hell, so I was wrong there. Aside from the wording I used, the point still stands. Jokes = not bad. Gay people = not bad. Stereotyping and generalizing gay people and their experiences = bad.

---

It is my understanding that Creel and me are on fairly decent terms.

lol well Creel and Ari, but it's actually not important. It was low of me to mention that. I was taking advantage of someone else's leave and attributing it to you. I apologize.

---

I am referring to your post in Random Anything.

The reason I posted it in RA instead of in MU or wherever topic you were squabbling in was because I wanted to separate my joke from the actual conversation taking place. Because it was a joke and not to be taken as a serious take on the discussion.

Double standards

funny

hurting people who are suffering

who

silencing the Scripture

when

accusations

makes sense

endangering kids

bruh what even

[Levi_Orangeburst]

Real World Politics

Claiming homosexuality as an identity is a violent act that ruins your relationships

First, how is it violent?
Second, why would it ruin relationships? If they are really your friends/family, they should able to accept you whether they agree with you or not.

[Sierepica_Fuzzywalker]

I accept your apology and I forgive you.

Because it was a joke and not to be taken as a serious take on the discussion.

I found the joke to be in poor taste. I don't like the comparison to E3, especially since I'm trying to be a better person than that.

who

Homosexuals I know elsewhere online and IRL, and also people on this forum who are suffering.

when

When we were discussing Goku's position on homosexuality.

endangering kids

bruh what even

This refers to the part you thought was brilliant. I have mentioned multiple times that my goal is to allow the topic without harming kids. "endangering" might be a bit much, though.

But it is important to remember that, in the face of no new content coming out to draw you back to the forum, that if you sit on this forum and keep coming back, day in, day out or week in, week out, for years and years that this forum fills a need, usually emotional, that your IRL relationships aren't meeting. It is in this way that online forums are the bottom of the world.

Therefore, the ones that stay are the broken and the misfits. If you teach a kid to get their emotional needs met from a forum when they have good IRL relationships available, you impoverish them and you leave them getting their needs met from a group of more impoverished relationships. For awhile, I thought the Holy Spirit had overcome this, and perhaps He did so with the assistance of youth and innocence in the past. But water flows downhill. More likely, the virtual environment allows or allowed us to hide the ugly from each other. You can't hide from this reality forever, though. When you feed an emotional need and meet it, it wants more than this forum can give because it's designed to be met IRL. The only result is pain.

So endangering may not be such a stretch.

[Levi_Orangeburst]

No offense, but why aren't you answering any of my questions...?

[Sierepica_Fuzzywalker]

I'm trying to answer them in Law and Order and stay on topic in this topic. I have finally got through what's in this topic, and am working on the Law and Order post now. Sorry that it's taking so long.

[Levi_Orangeburst]

I'm trying to answer them in Law and Order

Oh, gotcha.

Sorry that it's taking so long.

Take your time, I just wanted to make sure you saw them.

[Beckendorf_Direscope]

I wish @Mr_F3 would post. I am missing his timeless dry humor and memes.

[Spector_Otterquill]

and I am turning out fine.

_{Yeah, I didn't.}

[Beckendorf_Direscope]

[Pig_Larkcape1]

I found the joke to be in poor taste. I don't like the comparison to E3, especially since I'm trying to be a better person than that.

welp not every joke hits everyone the same, not my bad.

---

This

But it is important to remember that, in the face of no new content coming out to draw you back to the forum, that if you sit on this forum and keep coming back, day in, day out or week in, week out, for years and years that this forum fills a need, usually emotional, that your IRL relationships aren't meeting. It is in this way that online forums are the bottom of the world.

Therefore, the ones that stay are the broken and the misfits. If you teach a kid to get their emotional needs met from a forum when they have good IRL relationships available, you impoverish them and you leave them getting their needs met from a group of more impoverished relationships. For awhile, I thought the Holy Spirit had overcome this, and perhaps He did so with the assistance of youth and innocence in the past. But water flows downhill. More likely, the virtual environment allows or allowed us to hide the ugly from each other. You can't hide from this reality forever, though. When you feed an emotional need and meet it, it wants more than this forum can give because it's designed to be met IRL. The only result is pain.

I think I understand what you're saying here. Something along the lines of everyone on the internet is some sort of unstable, attention-starved kid. While I think that definitely applies to other parts of the internet, I don't think it applies in that way here.

Also, another thing I don't understand is if you think everyone here is someone is that is "broken" and a "misfit" and therefore we should be tighter with what we say and discuss, why do you also support keeping open the adult discussions that concern homosexuality and the like? That doesn't make sense to me.

I'd understand you if you were for one or the other. Tightening or loosening of conversation. I see the good points of both sides. But I don't understand how you can support both at the same time.

[Jones_Elderview]

Also, another thing I don't understand is if you think everyone here is someone is that is "broken" and a "misfit" and therefore we should be tighter with what we say and discuss, why do you also support keeping open the adult discussions that concern homosexuality and the like? That doesn't make sense to me

That's what I was thinking. (Also I am a misfit irl XD but not broken...kinda. I'm good.)

Really, this discussion has been going for 2...3 days now? XD this might just be me, but does anyone else still know what they're talking about?

[Eerie_Coppernight]

Squints bleary-eyed at the topic, Oh, what now.

You support saying homosexuality is morally wrong, you say it's temptation rather than valid attraction, and you have said multiple times gay people will go to hell if they stay gay.

I've talked to her about that. If you want to talk to her about it, take it to chess.

most of the time it's just an endless word salad saying the same thing in different ways.

I know word salad, Pig, and Sierepica's posts are not it.

it is completely valid attraction

Temptation is not wrong, but yielding to temptation is. We have chess if we care to discuss this without interruption.

I don't like the comparison to E3, especially since I'm trying to be a better person than that.

I think we're all trying to be a better person than that.

I wish @Mr_F3 would post. I am missing his timeless dry humor and memes.

You're not the only one. I think we could all learn something from him, mainly the art of not giving a fig.

[Beth_Applemine]

Hey everyone.
I know this is kinda.... controversial rn.
But I feel like us continuing to talk about this touchy subject of LGBTQ is a little lacking in respect for the mods’ and the staff mods’ wishes. I agree with Miss S and Eerie, that these things do need to be talked about. But I also agree with others, that this is not the place for it.
The staff were very specific explaining the purpose of the forums (check out the community guidelines). They are a place for players to talk about the game, and to share awesome ideas. Not to argue about all the problems of our broken humanity.
Perhaps you can talk about it on Chess, or Discord, or another platform. I know you guys can figure it out, you’re smart!
I personally don’t have a problem with talking these things over. But I do have a problem with not following the staff’s wishes. Like your Dad’s favorite saying: My house, my rules.
Same thing with the forums. They aren’t ours. They are the Aetherlight forums. And we need to respect the Aetherlight’s wishes.

[Sierepica_Fuzzywalker]

Squints bleary-eyed at the topic, Oh, what now.

LIRL, seriously.

Also, another thing I don't understand is if you think everyone here is someone is that is "broken" and a "misfit" and therefore we should be tighter with what we say and discuss, why do you also support keeping open the adult discussions that concern homosexuality and the like? That doesn't make sense to me.

I'd understand you if you were for one or the other. Tightening or loosening of conversation. I see the good points of both sides. But I don't understand how you can support both at the same time.

Now this is an internal contradiction in terms, and also sloppy problem solving. Way to go, Miss_S. What was happening was I was trying to look out for the interests of myself and that of a friend of mine at the same time, and I did not realize that these intentions were contradictory, because I hated myself for my own intentions. deep breath

Law and Order! Or a good place for a friendly argument

It would have been nice if I had opened with "I'm an ace" when discussing this subject. I underestimated the power of my sexual orientation to mold how I view the homosexual debate itself and how I respond to information about it.

The problem is, the asexual orientation isn't against Scripture as far as I know - you could even use 1 Corinthians 7 to defend it if you were so inclined, so my brain can't declare it a sin and get rid of it, much as I would like it gone. I get irritated when people use my orientation as an excuse to defend homosexuality, because ace and homosexuality are not the same thing in the eyes of God. Not even close.

On the other hand, I defend the right to have the discussion because I'm technically one of them. Hopefully my deeply-rooted position on this matter is cleared up, to some degree.

Them being the LGTBQIA community. Which makes me rather selfish, I'll admit. I'll also admit to defending a group of guys, because I'm a heteroromantic asexual and, as I've previously explained, I like guys. facepalm My previous point about the double standard was probably accurate, but it was also, er, motivated by the heteroromantic part of myself turning on a bit where it should not have. I am quite sorry for that. It seems that I got out of control. Thus, I being just me, would be 100% totally behind opening the discussion.

The reasons behind why I want it open are ugly though, in my opinion, just looking at it on my screen. I'm an adult and I have no right to open the discussion just to entreat acceptance for a part of myself that isn't even relevant to this forum's purpose. It's also weird to swap the authority of the Word of God and "this is wrong" for "I am part of the community and my orientation is accepted by Scripture but homosexuality isn't acceptable and if you advocate for tolerance for them you go against Scirpture and overvalue sexual attraction, which I go without every day, thus devaluing Scripture and my own existence at the same time?" It makes everything needlessly personal. I write essays.

However, my friend, whose name is @Jessie_Dearsnap, wants to close the discussion. And what happened was she took advantage of my unease about my own position here to give me a lot of data to support her own position. So I tried to support both of our positions at the same time because I hated myself for being selfish and for having the orientation in the first place. So I went back and forth between these positions because of my emotions, and that is not good debate practice. Thank you for calling me on it.

It is, technically possible, that having information here about asexuality could be the same as homosexuality. If you have you have it and you don't know you have it, you can get really confused and suffer as a result. I have been incredibly baffled at myself over the years. The opposite, though, thinking that you are an ace when you are not, can also get you in trouble heh, because you discount the sexual attractions you are feeling in denial, and that creates an internal contradiction that leads to more incoherent discussion posts. Most asexuals can simply follow 1 Corinthians 7 and not get married, and the heteroromantic ones can get married if they want. God isn't mad at them for all that.

With that being said, all of the books I read for sexual control where written for heteroromantic heterosexual folks. No advice was given on how to control this strange orientation that it is. But it does need to be controlled. I have seen it do some pretty weird stuff in the past. And then people don't get it and hate me for it. It's easy to internalize that hate. But the hate is unscriptural.

I'm not going to ask you to accept this, because I have trouble accepting it in myself. But I hope you understand that it affects how I discuss homosexuality. That's it.

[Pig_Larkcape1]

Aight. @Sierepica_Fuzzywalker

I think this discussion is over now.

I feel like we've all learned what we needed to learn from this.

I learned about you.

You learned about me hopefully.

And everyone knows what we support and why.

And learning is the end goal of every discussion anyway. Not winning, losing, or any of that primitive stuffage.

I'm very glad we could come to an agreement/agree to disagree of sorts. But what's important is that it is understanding. And when we understand people, we can be more civil with them because we know their likes and dislikes.

That's how it is to my understanding anyway. Have a nice day everyone.