Law and Order! Or a good place for a friendly argument

[Lilliana_Umbrellascope]

I'm with Liz on this one, I don't like having my rights infringed on.

[Sierepica_Fuzzywalker]

It has ways of changing your genes... so that if you do get covid, the body won't recognize it as a threat and just let it do whatever...

That’s not what it does. My understanding from research is that it changes the RNA in cells near the injection site to produce the spike proteins on the actual virus, but it doesn’t change the cell’s genetic code (DNA), so it’s not gene therapy. Your immune system destroys these cells for producing this foreign protein, which trains the immune system to recognize the COVID spike proteins on the virus immediately.

Science explained here: [https://youtu.be/z0kfdZ8o_j4] Please watch the video before making assumptions. Scishow has a lot of good videos on the virus and vaccine that people should be watching to understand this stuff.

The virus itself causes damage to your circulatory system because of these proteins anyway. The combination of some of your cells getting destroyed, the spike proteins, and the vaccine serum being thick is why you get the sore arm, and the cell destruction part of it is why you get the symptoms of immune system operation instead of nothing like other vaccines.

Now these symptoms may be too much for some folks’ bodies to handle, and you shouldn’t take it if you have an allergy to any of the ingredients. Read the ingredient list. I’m no doctor, but I took the vaccine and I’m fine and so are most of my friends with health conditions and the elderly.

On the other hand, this virus causes an overreaction of the immune response and that is what kills you because your lungs fill up with immune system guck. The vaccine is a bet that your body will destroy the virus before it has enough of itself to cause said overreaction. If you are immunocompromised, that math may not work out and could make everything worse. But for normal, healthy adults, this one is cool for school. (Literally, in my case.)

I’m not pro-vax here - I’m not going to advocate that people get it, but I am going to advocate for using your brain. Read the ingredient list for the vaccine, understand how the virus works, and talk to your doctor about what is best for your specific medical situation. I know that everyone is eager to get back to normal in-person interaction, but that doesn’t mean we get to turn off our brains. Because it’s a virus, and it is bad, and we have to accept the badness in some way, even if it is taking a few minutes to do your homework before injecting yourself with potential death.

[Iliara_Mustardtop]

it rewires your body's cells to create antibodies synthetically

To add to this, the COVID mRNA vaccine works by giving your cell info on how to manufacture a specific protein (which happens to be found in the COVID virus) that will trigger the body's immune response. If you later contract COVID, the body will recognize that protein, so you'll have a headstart on fighting it. Although the method is different than the vaccines that have been made thus far, the goal is still the same--to increase your chance of a healthy recovery by priming the antibodies. It's similar to cowpox being a vaccine for smallpox, only with proteins that are also found in a virus, instead of a live virus itself.
Important note: mRNA does not change your DNA. There are little bits of RNA in every cell that are not connected to the human genome as a whole, but that serve minor functions in the working of the cell. They can't be inherited like DNA is.

Now as to the efficacy of the virus, I don't have the time to do proper thorough research at the moment, but I did want to give a little explanation as to what an mRNA vaccine is and how it works. I hope it's helpful! I enjoyed doing research on how this stuff works since I just finished a genetics class and a couple of biology classes.

EDIT: Ah, @Sierepica_Fuzzywalker, we had the same thought process

[Emily_Purplebottle]

Plus, forcing us to take it is against our rights.

Not a good reason.

How on earth is this not a valid reason? Are you just saying the government can say "go do that" and you do it like a doting puppy?

How would you feel if the government said you must put your children in public school even when we know the detrimental effects of public school? I know I'd make a fuss.

We have basic laws for simple reasons such as wearing a seatbelt. That keeps us from dying and that makes sense.

But with something like the vaccine, I'm not going to take it just because the government says so. I get that the government is my author...but if and when they go against the Bible, that's when I'm allowed to fight back. The vaccine is also not officially FDA approved.

NOW. I would take the vaccine if it was a way for me to do mission work since that was been hindered by COVID.

But when it comes to my personal health, the government doesn't really have a say.

[Iliara_Mustardtop]

The vaccine is also not officially FDA approved.

They actually just recently approved the Pfizer vaccine.
[https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine]

[Micah_Wellpride]

I can think of few better. We have rights for good reasons. They allow us to be responsible for our own lives and thus be wholly human. Rights and freedoms should not be surrendered for the sake of safety. That is how tyrants rise to power.

Tyrants are only permitted to indulge their tyranny because people surrender their rights to them. Whether they surrender for security from some real of perceived threat or simply not to cause trouble, they always end up more miserable than if they had not surrendered their rights.

If someone in authority tells you do not want to do because it is "against your rights", will you fight or resist? No, you should not because it is not against Gods law. He put our leaders, no matter what you might say, in authority over us. This makes it so we must obey them. The only way we should resist the government is if they are contrary to GODS law. Now, if Gods law and humans law is in harmony then we should obey both (thou shalt not steal, murder etc). BUT, if God does not say something is wrong, ie wear a purple shoe on your right foot on Sundays, and the government makes it a law, EVEN THOUGH you believe this is contrary to your rights, you should still do it, BECAUSE submitting to the government, since he set them up, is the same as submitting to Him. If the government tells me to do anything I will do it, not because I am a puppet, because I am following God and His word.

People will say all kinds of things for interviews and television. You should be wary of politicians who will do anything to stay in power and the doctors in their pay. As long as the pandemic continues, people will be afraid. When people are afraid, they will do anything for safety. The politicians offer them safety, then discard them once election season is over and do whatever they want.

The world is a scary place, an unsafe place. If you liked, you could shut yourself in a perfectly safe little box, but what kind of life would that be? If your biggest concern is with being safe, you'll never reach your full potential as a human being. God did not put us on this earth to be safe. He put us here to be courageous. Courage is looking your fear in the eye and saying, "Why don't you shove a sock in it for once?" Once you do that, there's no end to what you could do.

Not people on TV, people we know personally (My dad works at a hospital)

A big part of maturing is realizing that adults don't have all the answers. It's frightening to discover that your parents are just as clueless about some things as you are. However, once you realize that, you can start taking care of them.

They have more info then children.

How would you feel if the government said you must put your children in public school even when we know the detrimental effects of public school? I know I'd make a fuss.

I would make a fuss because I beleive that goes contrary to Gods law. He says train your children up in the way they should go, not public school teachers and people who will enforce their beleifs on our children.

We have basic laws for simple reasons such as wearing a seatbelt. That keeps us from dying and that makes sense.

True, but I know some people who resist and do not wear seatbelts and I beleivce that is both stupid and disobedient to God.

But with something like the vaccine, I'm not going to take it just because the government says so. I get that the government is my author...but if and when they go against the Bible, that's when I'm allowed to fight back. The vaccine is also not officially FDA approved.

YES! This should be your mindset! If you have studied and found a biblically sound thing wrong with the vaccine you shouldn't get it!

But when it comes to my personal health, the government doesn't really have a say.

True, but what if they help you..... then you would be disobedient to God because there is nothing wrong with what they are saying.

They actually just recently approved the Pfizer vaccine.

Just about to say that, but my post took really long xD

[Levi_Orangeburst]

not because I am a puppet, because I am following God and His word.

Lets say your parents tell you to cut off your foot, will you do it just because the Bible says obey your parents? Sumthin to think abt.

[Lilliana_Umbrellascope]

Question, are you going to have this same mindset when it comes to the mark? Because the government (well, in that time the Anti-Christ) not just going to tell you, they will most definitely force you. Jesus said to give what it Caesar's to Caesar, not to blindly follow their stupidity.

[Eerie_Coppernight]

If someone in authority tells you do not want to do because it is "against your rights", will you fight or resist?

Yes. My answer is yes.

No, you should not because it is not against Gods law. He put our leaders, no matter what you might say, in authority over us.

The early Christians still didn't worship the Roman emperor even when the government said so.

They have more info then children.

Often, but not always. If you wish to remain a child, you will stay in your safe space and not come out.

I would make a fuss

Good to know you draw the line somewhere.

If you have studied and found a biblically sound thing wrong with the vaccine you shouldn't get it!

The Bible technically doesn't say anything about whether or not Christians should smoke marijuana. Just because the Bible doesn't mention something explicitly doesn't mean that thing is good.

The biggest problem people have with the vaccine is this.

1 Corinthians 6:19

19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,

People don't want to willingly put something in their bodies that could cause significant harm just because the government says so. As Jessie said, the effects can take months to show up.

True, but what if they help you..... then you would be disobedient to God because there is nothing wrong with what they are saying.

Hitler helped the German people with a lot of sanitation and beautification programs. Would disobeying that government by refusing to force a Jewish tenant to move out be disobeying God? Why or why not?

Not taking the vaccine wouldn't even be disobeying the government since they are overstepping their bounds by trying to force people to take it. The federal government should be concerned with things at their level. When they try to micromanage people's lives, even if they claim it is for the better, they're going too far.

Just because there is little or nothing biblically wrong with a government mandate does not mean we should bend over and obey. There might be nothing biblically wrong what they are asking, technically speaking, but there is something wrong with it.

[Sierepica_Fuzzywalker]

This is my position on government stuff:

Essays: A Rhetorical Posting Location

Every person is to be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a servant of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for the sake of conscience.

[…]

Note that this command is commonly viewed to be contingent on the authority's noninterference with your obedience to God's commands. If the authority is requiring something from you that God forbids or forbidding something that God demands, you are obliged to either leave the situation or take action against the corrupt authority or both. This counsel comes from principle, but it also comes from a familiar situation in the Book of Daniel:

Exodus 20:4-5:
4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath, or in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not worship them nor serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, inflicting the punishment of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Daniel 3:13-27

13 Then Nebuchadnezzar in rage and anger gave orders to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; then these men were brought before the king. 14 Nebuchadnezzar began speaking and said to them, “Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, that you do not serve my gods, nor worship the golden statue that I have set up? 15 Now if you are ready, at the moment you hear the sound of the horn, flute, lyre, trigon, psaltery and bagpipe, and all kinds of musical instruments, to fall down and worship the statue that I have made, very well. But if you do not worship, you will immediately be thrown into the midst of a furnace of blazing fire; and what god is there who can rescue you from my hands?”

16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego replied to the king, “Nebuchadnezzar, we are not in need of an answer to give you concerning this matter. 17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to rescue us from the furnace of blazing fire; and He will rescue us from your hand, O king. 18 But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods nor worship the golden statue that you have set up.”

19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was filled with wrath, and his facial expression was changed toward Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. He answered by giving orders to heat the furnace seven times more than it was usually heated. 20 And he ordered certain valiant warriors who were in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego in order to throw them into the furnace of blazing fire. 21 Then these men were tied up in their trousers, their coats, their caps, and their other clothes, and were thrown into the middle of the furnace of blazing fire. 22 For this reason, because the king’s command was harsh and the furnace had been made extremely hot, the flame of the fire killed those men who took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. 23 But these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, fell into the middle of the furnace of blazing fire still tied up.

24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astounded and stood up quickly; he said to his counselors, “Was it not three men that we threw bound into the middle of the fire?” They replied to the king, “Absolutely, O king.” 25 He responded, “Look! I see four men untied and walking about in the middle of the fire unharmed, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!” 26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the door of the furnace of blazing fire; he said, “Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, come out, you servants of the Most High God, and come here!” Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego came out of the middle of the fire. 27 The satraps, the prefects, the governors, and the king’s counselors gathered together and saw that the fire had no effect on the bodies of these men, nor was the hair of their heads singed, nor were their trousers damaged, nor had even the smell of fire touched them.
—————————————————-
God was faithful to rescue Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego from corrupt and evil authority that wanted them to worship idols. Nowhere is their resolve rebuked - their resolve to follow God in the face of evil authority wasn't contingent on his rescue.

The biggest problem people have with the vaccine is this.

1 Corinthians 6:19

19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,

This is a legitimate case, but the case could be made the other way. Is it responsible to invite disease into God’s temple when I could have prevented it by taking a vaccine? I still may have things to do in this body, so throwing it out like so much trash strikes me as unwise.

In my case, the university practically requires it to be on campus, and if you don’t, you have to get tested every week, which was too much of a strain for me. If I didn’t take it, I would have lost that mission field - it’s like what @Emily_Purplebottle was describing. I have at least two people there I’m witnessing to on a hardcore basis and more besides, so for me, it was worth it.

I understand why they want students to get it - getting sick in the middle of a college semester can cost you the entire semester’s worth of work and set you back in your graduation. One of my friends has an asthma and is immunocompromised and if she gets the virus she’s gone. Thou shall not murder too (Exodus 20:13), right? And that command includes suicide in the original Hebrew. God is sovereign over death and life, and we need to respect that.

Thus, with the tension between Exodus 20 and 1 Corinthians 6, I defer you back to Romans 13.

Whether the government has the right to force it on us is not a question of Scripture, but a function of the American Constitution. Which is entirely different.

[Micah_Wellpride]

Lets say your parents tell you to cut off your foot, will you do it just because the Bible says obey your parents? Sumthin to think abt.

Question, are you going to have this same mindset when it comes to the mark? Because the government (well, in that time the Anti-Christ) not just going to tell you, they will most definitely force you. Jesus said to give what it Caesar's to Caesar, not to blindly follow their stupidity.

The early Christians still didn't worship the Roman emperor even when the government said so.

Yes. My answer is yes.

Good to know you draw the line somewhere.

Did you even hear what I said xD

If someone in authority tells you do not want to do because it is "against your rights", will you fight or resist? No, you should not because it is not against Gods law. He put our leaders, no matter what you might say, in authority over us. This makes it so we must obey them. The only way we should resist the government is if they are contrary to GODS law. Now, if Gods law and humans law is in harmony then we should obey both (thou shalt not steal, murder etc). BUT, if God does not say something is wrong, ie wear a purple shoe on your right foot on Sundays, and the government makes it a law, EVEN THOUGH you believe this is contrary to your rights, you should still do it, BECAUSE submitting to the government, since he set them up, is the same as submitting to Him. If the government tells me to do anything I will do it, not because I am a puppet, because I am following God and His word.

If it is CONTRARY TO GODS LAW I will resist. But if they recommend something I will not necessarily obey. If they tell me to do something I will obey. Also I obey God, then my parents, then the government. In that order.

Hitler helped the German people with a lot of sanitation and beautification programs. Would disobeying that government by refusing to force a Jewish tenant to move out be disobeying God? Why or why not?

Is wrong. Because God says it is xD

Just because there is little or nothing biblically wrong with a government mandate does not mean we should bend over and obey. There might be nothing biblically wrong what they are asking, technically speaking, but there is something wrong with it.

If God doesn't say its bad, and I believe that God wouldn't mind if I took it or not, then God wants me to take it so that in doing so I obey the government (this is of course if they mandate it, which if you are against the vaccine is bad, but if you are for it is ok) It all comes down to whether you believe it is a sin. And yes if something is wrong with it it is most likely a sin, because we are Christians and the holy spirit convicts of us wrong things. But don't assume every feeling is the holy spirit.

[Elizabeth_Newroad]

Did you even hear what I said

Are you even listening to what we said?

[Micah_Wellpride]

Yes but it seemed you didnt hear that I said I would obey unless it was bad.

Lets say your parents tell you to cut off your foot, will you do it just because the Bible says obey your parents? Sumthin to think abt.

Lilliana_Umbrellascope:
Question, are you going to have this same mindset when it comes to the mark? Because the government (well, in that time the Anti-Christ) not just going to tell you, they will most definitely force you. Jesus said to give what it Caesar's to Caesar, not to blindly follow their stupidity.

Eerie_Coppernight:
The early Christians still didn't worship the Roman emperor even when the government said so.

Smh. I had JUST SAID it!

[Eerie_Coppernight]

Because God says it is xD

Where? You care so much about biblical authority, where does it say you cannot turn out a tenant?

don't assume every feeling is the holy spirit.

I don't. Do you?

I highly doubt your reasons for obeying the government. Is it because you want to obey God by obeying the government, or because you want to do the safe thing?

I would obey unless it was bad.

Your definition of "bad" seems to be a little too narrow.

[Sierepica_Fuzzywalker]

I’m just going to say that cutting off your foot is probably a violation of the temple of the Holy Spirit verse. Unless that foot is getting sucked into farm equipment and already getting shredded, don’t do it. You can also bleed to death from that.

Taking the Antichrist’s mark is idolatry, which would be like the Shadrach Meshach, and Abendago situation I mentioned earlier.

I just feel like saying this for no good reason. Ignore me.

[Micah_Wellpride]

I highly doubt your reasons for obeying the government. Is it because you want to obey God by obeying the government, or because you want to do the safe thing?

Because I am obeying God, by obeying my parents and obeying the government in the process. Also I do not believe wearing a mask or getting vaccinated are sins.

[Eerie_Coppernight]

They are not. Do as you will.

[Beckendorf_Direscope]

Um, I actually went back and read your post. Forget I said anything.

[Levi_Orangeburst]

I’m just going to say that cutting off your foot is probably a violation of the temple of the Holy Spirit verse. Unless that foot is getting sucked into farm equipment and already getting shredded, don’t do it. You can also bleed to death from that.

Good to know.

[Micah_Wellpride]

They are not.

huh? what?